Brian Ripley - Taking Care of Business

Louis Goodman / Brian Ripley - Transcript

[00:00:03] Louis Goodman: Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk with attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm your host Louis Goodman. Today we welcome Brian A. Ripley to the podcast. Mr. Ripley is recognized as one of the foremost business transaction attorneys in the Bay Area. Oakland Magazine named Mr. Ripley as Best Lawyer.

The East Bay Express recognized him as the best business attorney for the last four years, and he's been named as a Northern California Super Lawyer for the second year in a row. Among numerous areas of public service. Mr. Ripley impresses me in that he has served as a board member for the Alameda County Bar Association.

Brian A. Ripley, welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

[00:00:54] Brian Ripley: Thank you very much Louis. It's a pleasure to be here with you. 

[00:00:57] Louis Goodman: Pleasure to have you. Where are you speaking to us from right now? 

[00:01:01] Brian Ripley: Yeah. I'm actually working from my home office. I have an ADU in my backyard where I work full-time. And then I also have an office downtown, but like most lawyers, I don't use it as much as I used to.

[00:01:13] Louis Goodman: And both of these offices are in the city of Oakland? 

[00:01:16] Brian Ripley: They are. They are, yeah. I live in what's called Maxwell Park. Which is off of five 80, and my main office is downtown in the main part of Oakland, right across from City Hall. 

[00:01:27] Louis Goodman: Can you tell us how you describe your practice? 

[00:01:31] Brian Ripley: Yeah. I would say that I characterize myself as outside general counsel for small business owners.

Obviously if a company is large enough to have their own in-house lawyers, that's not a good fit for me. But I do work with a lot of small business owners, real estate investors, licensed professionals and so forth who do have legal questions, and I'm the guy that they call if they have a question. I really start with helping them set up their businesses as having a great foundation for your business is key.

So rather than letting them use an online platform, I convinced them to work with me and we create, as I say, a good foundation both for the business entity itself and then the documents that they use in their business. 

[00:02:17] Louis Goodman: How long have you been in this kind of practice? 

[00:02:20] Brian Ripley: So I've been in practice overall since 1983, but I really transitioned to this area of practice in 2007 when I first moved to Oakland.

I was a litigator for almost 25 years, both in San Francisco and in Contra Costa County. But then, as I say, when I moved to Oakland, I made that transition. 

[00:02:43] Louis Goodman: Where are you from originally? 

[00:02:45] Brian Ripley: I grew up in Marin County. My dad was stationed in the Presidio during the Korean War, and when the war ended, he and my mom moved to Sausalito, which is where I was born. Grew up in Marin County. I have two siblings who both live on the East coast, but I stayed here just because, Hey, why would you wanna live anywhere else? 

[00:03:04] Louis Goodman: Really? Did you go to high school in Marin County? In Sausalito? 

[00:03:07] Brian Ripley: I did, not in Sausalito, but I went to Redwood High School at Larch for, and actually spent my junior year overseas as an exchange student in a beautiful town in southern Germany called Freiburg, which is the capital of the black forest, and lived with a German family there, attended a German school, and just had that immersion of being a German student and it changed my life, no question. 

[00:03:33] Louis Goodman: How's your "sprechen Deutsch" these days? Right. So when you graduated from high school, where'd you go to college? 

[00:03:44] Brian Ripley: I actually went to two different colleges. I originally started at the Claro Men's College in Southern California and then transferred to Colorado College midway through my sophomore year. I don't know if you remember, but in those days, the air quality in Southern California was horrific.

This was in the early seventies, and I actually just couldn't stand living in pollution 24/7, and my roommate at that college was from Colorado and he was the one who persuaded me to move to Colorado and attend Colorado College, which is a very unique college in the way that it's structured. You take one class at a time for three and a half weeks, so the year is broken into what they call blocks, and you have this very deep immersion in whatever subject that you're pursuing.

[00:04:35] Louis Goodman: When you went to law school, did you take some time off between college and law school or did you just go straight through? 

[00:04:39] Brian Ripley: No, I did take a couple of years off when I got done with college, I had actually had a pretty severe accident at the end of college and needed to recover from that and really didn't wanna be sitting in a classroom full-time.

But I ended up actually working for various businesses in San Francisco. Ended up working for Hartford Insurance and their legal department. 

[00:05:01] Louis Goodman: When you ultimately did go to law school, where'd you go? 

[00:05:04] Brian Ripley: I went to Hastings, although we don't call it Hastings anymore. It's the University of California Law School in San Francisco.

But that was, yeah, from 1980 to 1983. 

[00:05:15] Louis Goodman: Yeah, I went there too. I'm, I still have trouble with all the AKAs that I know that the law school has now. So what was that experience like coming back to the Bay Area and being in law school? 

[00:05:28] Brian Ripley: It was, I'll have to say it was challenging. When I was growing up I was always at the top of the class. And when I went to law school, I was with everybody else who was at the top of the class, and it was very competitive and I was also working at the same time. I was working for McKesson at downtown San Francisco, so I would go to school in the morning and then I would go and work the rest of the day. So it was exhausting.

[00:05:54] Louis Goodman: When did you first start thinking about being a lawyer, and then when did you actually decide, okay, I'm gonna fill out the applications, I'm gonna send in the money. I'm gonna go to law school. 

[00:06:06] Brian Ripley: I was working for the in-house legal department at Hartford Insurance as a law clerk and as their legal librarian.

And I got to know these, many of them were younger lawyers and they, after working with me, said, you're wasting your time as a law clerk. You should be a lawyer. And they were the ones who actually convinced me that this was something that I should pursue. And the senior partner at the firm kind of became my mentor in terms of helping me prepare for the, the exam, the application, and all of that.

But it was not my intention to become a lawyer. It was really based on these other young lawyers that I connected with that I felt, Hey, this is fun. This is something that I can do. 

[00:06:50] Louis Goodman: Do you think that. Having worked in a legally adjacent industry gave you a better focus once you got to law school? 

[00:06:58] Brian Ripley: No question.

No question. When you're in law school, you're learning about the law, but you don't really learn about, Hey, how do you interact with a client? And just the law firm that I was working with was a litigation law firm, so I got to learn a lot about the litigation process, about discovery and depositions and so forth, and helping the lawyers there to prepare for these various items and court appearance and so forth. So I did come into law school with, I think, an advantage as to what does it mean to be a lawyer as to just being a, a legal intellectual. 

[00:07:32] Louis Goodman: Can you give a brief history of your career like you got outta law school and then you obviously got some kind of a legal job. You now have this, I dunno, a niche practice of doing this business transactional work. How did you get from one spot to the other? 

[00:07:47] Brian Ripley: I started as a litigator back in these days, in the early eighties, the jobs that were available were primarily insurance defense positions at various law firms that worked and represented various insurance companies, and that was the firm that I signed up with.

I was fortunate in that it was a small kind of boutique firm. So that I was able to get my feet wet very quickly. I was in court and taking depositions within the first six months of having been hired as an associate with this firm as opposed to other colleagues of mine who were basically sitting in the back room going through documents, having no interaction with the client.

That was not my experience. I was as if a very lucky to get in there and really have that experience of what it meant to be a litigation attorney. 

[00:08:36] Louis Goodman: How long did you remain as a litigator? 

[00:08:38] Brian Ripley: So I worked as a litigator really until 2007, but I didn't stay with that firm. I ended up starting my own firm and a number of the clients who had been clients of that firm went with me.

I worked with a couple of large manufacturers of construction equipment and I did a lot of products, liability litigation, and then also began to just start doing my own litigation. I started doing some personal injury litigation for plaintiffs. 

[00:09:08] Louis Goodman: How did you decide to go into the transactional work?

[00:09:12] Brian Ripley: It was actually health driven. When I turned 50, I actually had a very major health crisis and the doctor who diagnosed my condition said that if I continued litigating full-time, I was going to really jeopardize my long-term health. 

[00:09:32] Louis Goodman: I wanna ask you about something that you touched on a little earlier when you said that when you left your firm, a number of clients came with you.

I really think it's important for lawyers to understand, especially young attorneys to understand how important it is for any attorney to have their own book of business. 

[00:09:51] Brian Ripley: A hundred percent. 

[00:09:52] Louis Goodman: And it's something that they never taught us in law school, they never talked about, and yet as a practitioner and in talking to so many attorneys on this podcast, it's just some really something that's, that I've recognized as being important about an attorney, having his or her own book of business. And I'd like you to talk a little bit about your experience with that and if you just comment on that. 

[00:10:17] Brian Ripley: Sure. I'm really amazed these days that young attorneys who get outta law school and are opening up their own firms without having that, as you say, that group of clients, when I launched my own firm, I was working in the financial district in San Francisco.

I had an expensive office. I had multiple staff members that were helping me and my monthly, it was 15, $20,000 just to keep the doors open. And if I hadn't had those group of clients who came over with me from the old firm I couldn't have done it. And as I say, I'm amazed that and that young lawyers choose to launch a law firm without having that client base for a number of reasons, not just the financial basis, but also I was fortunate enough to have an enormous amount of experience before I launched my own firm.

So I knew how to interact with clients. I knew how to, I knew how to address their expectations to, to set goals and so forth. It was, again, I think I was lucky in that respect that I had significant experience in, because I was the managing partner of the firm before I left. I had a lot of interaction with clients and I understood what it meant to be a business lawyer.

I think that's another thing that a lot of lawyers, we don't get that in law school. We don't learn how to be a business owner, and so a lot of lawyers, they fail because they don't have that background. 

[00:11:48] Louis Goodman: Yeah, I've mentioned it on this podcast before many times people are probably going, oh, he's Louis is going into this again. But I just feel it's malpractice on the part of the law schools to not talk about lawyers running a business. And

[00:12:04] Brian Ripley: I agree. 

[00:12:05] Louis Goodman: And then we wonder, well, why do lawyers get in trouble? Why are lawyers in trouble with the state bar? Why are lawyers stressed out about their lives and their practices? And if you don't have some basic sense of how to run a business and you're trying to run a business, I think that it's a recipe for disaster.

[00:12:23] Brian Ripley: I've seen it, and I'll be candid, I made some terrific mistakes because I didn't have the education on what it meant to be a business owner. And I've been lucky over the years to be working with business coaches and other people who've really helped me understand what does it mean to have a business plan.

And that's something that when I sit down with a new business client, like, what's your plan? And if they don't have a plan, then we back up and get that started. 

[00:12:54] Louis Goodman: If a young person were just graduating from college thinking about a career, would you recommend the law? 

[00:12:59] Brian Ripley: I would say yes overall because I think that having that degree gives you options. It gives you a level of credibility, whether you decide to work as a lawyer or not, I think it, it gets you in the door in a way that not having that credibility and would provide. 

[00:13:19] Louis Goodman: What advice would you give to a young person just starting out? 

[00:13:24] Brian Ripley: I think having a mentor. Is really critical, to have somebody who has walked the path that you're walking, who knows what the mistakes are and what are the ways to avoid that or mitigate those problems.

And building a community of other lawyers that you know and trust and that you can get together and hey, have coffee every once in a while and say, Hey, here's what's going on with me. Have you experienced that before? But again, getting that feedback from other professionals. 

[00:13:57] Louis Goodman: Yeah. I think one of the most dangerous things about being in a solo practice is not having those people down the hall to just bounce things off of.

[00:14:08] Brian Ripley: Exactly. 

[00:14:09] Louis Goodman: And I, when lawyers who get in trouble, the state bar, I don't know, probably a large percentage of them are solo practitioners. 

[00:14:17] Brian Ripley: Absolutely. 

[00:14:18] Louis Goodman: And I think a lot of solo practitioners feel, oh, the state bar's picking on us. And I'm, I'm not saying that the state bar doesn't pick on solos a little bit, but on the other hand, I think that solos get themselves in troubles for the things that we're just talking about.

[00:14:33] Brian Ripley: Absolutely. 

[00:14:33] Louis Goodman: You know, the lack of business acumen, the lack of having someone to talk to, the lack of having someone to be a mentor, where if you're in a big firm or big government office, these things are just built into the practice. 

[00:14:48] Brian Ripley: Exactly, exactly. 

[00:14:49] Louis Goodman: And while I'm preaching on my soapbox here, and it also relates to something we were talking about earlier, which is, um, coming right outta law school I think going with a big firm or big government or a big company is the way to get started and to learn something. You come outta law school, you don't know anything. I didn't know anything. 

[00:15:11] Brian Ripley: And again, I had the advantage that I had already worked for a law firm for a couple of years.

[00:15:15] Louis Goodman: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Do you think the legal system's fair?

[00:15:20] Brian Ripley: Candidly, no. I think, and this isn't a new revelation, but I think the legal system works in favor of people who have the resources, the money to hire the best lawyer, and whether that means that justice actually happens, I think that's the real question. I think people have this fantasy that if they file a court case and they're in the right, that they're gonna prevail. But there are a lot of things that get in the way of prevailing, whether you are right or not. 

[00:15:51] Louis Goodman: Lemme switch gears here a little bit. I'm wondering what sort of recreational activities that you enjoy. What do you do when you wanna get your mind off of the practice of law? 

[00:16:01] Brian Ripley: When I stepped away from litigation, I actually had big chunks of time where I could do things that I loved to do and that I had really not been doing for 25 years, traveling. I started traveling. I would take two months out of the year, I would take April and I would take September, and I would travel. 

[00:16:20] Louis Goodman: Where have you gone that you really enjoyed? 

[00:16:22] Brian Ripley: I, one of my favorite was being in Japan for the cherry blossom season. That was amazing. I've spent a lot of time in south and central America.

I have a very large extended family in Paris, so I've spent many times in Paris and I, one of my other passions is collecting Mexican folk art. So I've spent hundreds of days in Mexico pursuing art and participating in arts festivals. 

[00:16:50] Louis Goodman: Have you had a chance to get back to Germany? 

[00:16:53] Brian Ripley: I have. I actually, the year after I was an exchange student, a student from the same high school that I went to came and lived with my family, and he and I have remained friends all of these years.

He and his wife were actually here in Oakland just a few months ago. But yeah, I've visited him in Germany multiple times over the last couple of decades and it's been nice to maintain that, that friendship with him. 

[00:17:20] Louis Goodman: Let's say that you came into some real money. Let's say you came into several billion dollars, three or $4 billion. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

[00:17:33] Brian Ripley: I would, first of all, I would support the arts here in the Bay Area. As I think I've been very active in the arts here in the Bay Area, and seeing them struggle the way that they're struggling right now breaks my heart because I grew up in a family where the arts were critical, and I know that having that exposure made me who I am, and I think every kid should have an opportunity to participate in, whether it's music or whatever that is, whatever their heart pulls them towards, that they should have that opportunity. And that's what I think would be my focus. 

[00:18:11] Louis Goodman: Let's say you had a Super Bowl ad, somebody gave you 60 seconds on the Super Bowl. You could say whatever you want to, a really big audience. What would you wanna put out there on your 60 second Super Bowl ad? 

[00:18:24] Brian Ripley: Focus on love, focus on support. Focus on the things that make you happy. 

[00:18:31] Louis Goodman: Brian, if someone wants to get in touch with you, another attorney's looking to refer you some business or get some advice about a case that he or she's handling, or someone has a case where they feel that your services might be a positive fit, what's the best way to get in touch with Brian A. Ripley? 

[00:18:52] Brian Ripley: Yeah, it's actually www.brianripley.com. We've actually just recently relaunched the website. It talks about what we do, how we do it, and there are ways to contact us, whether by phone or otherwise, through the website. So that's probably the best thing. 

[00:19:11] Louis Goodman: And if we were to Google Brian Ripley attorney in Oakland, I'm sure you would come up. 

[00:19:16] Brian Ripley: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 

[00:19:18] Louis Goodman: Brian, is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we haven't covered? Any, anything at all that you'd like to bring up that you'd like to discuss?

[00:19:25] Brian Ripley: Yeah, actually there is, and you were talking about what advice would I give a young lawyer and some of the best advice that I was given was learn to be a hub. And by that I mean, get to know a broad community of very high quality professionals so that whatever your clients need, they know that they can call you.

My clients call me if they need a hairdresser, if they need a CPA, if they need a painter, whatever that is. But being that hub means that I'm always top of mind. So even if my clients don't need my services right now, the fact that they have been contacting me on a regular basis over the years to get connected with other professional service providers, whatever that is, means that I'm, they know and they remember who I am and they appreciate the fact that I will refer them to a top CPA, a top financial advisor, whatever that is. And that helps my credibility as well. 

[00:20:31] Louis Goodman: There's one other subject I'd like you to address a little bit, which is your work with the Alameda County Bar Association, 'cause this podcast is very connected with the ACBA, and I'd like you to talk a little bit about your work with that. 

[00:20:46] Brian Ripley: Absolutely. I've actually been associated with the ACBA for many years. I was the head of the business law section for a number of years, and most recently, for the last two years I've been on the board and I think that legal community that the ACBA has created is such a great place for, again, for young lawyers to get connected. Whatever your area of expertise is, join that section of the ACBA, participate in continuing education programs, learn how to give continuing education programs. Some of the first opportunities that I had to be a public speaker was as a presenter for ACBA continuing education programs.

And the fact that ACBA provides free continuing education for its members is huge. And it also, again, allows you to build a community of other lawyers. Again, if you're a solo lawyer, you've now got that group of friends that you've met through ACBA that are gonna be there for you and that you get to be there for, through the course of your career. And they have great social events too. 

[00:21:57] Louis Goodman: Brian Ripley, thank you so much for joining me today on the Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

[00:22:03] Brian Ripley: Likewise, Louis. Really appreciate it and hope to connect with you again sometime soon. 

[00:22:07] Louis Goodman: That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email. Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com, where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs and information.

Thanks to my guests, and to Joel Katz for music, Bryan Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman.

[00:22:45] Brian Ripley: Good question. I was actually pretty arrogant early on in my career and far part 

[00:22:50] Louis Goodman: Aren't we all?