Elizabeth Larrick - Juror Focus Groups

Louis Goodman / Elizabeth Larrick - Transcript

[00:00:03] Louis Goodman: Welcome to Love Thy Lawyer, where we talk with attorneys about their lives and careers. I'm your host, Louis Goodman. Today we welcome Elizabeth Larrick to the program. Ms. Larrick is a seasoned trial attorney with extensive courtroom experience. She also teaches attorneys in the areas of focus group analysis, witness preparation, and deposition strategies.

She's a passionate advocate for empowering attorneys. She speaks publicly and teaches attorneys at all stages of their careers. Elizabeth Larrick, welcome to Love Thy Lawyer. 

[00:00:44] Elizabeth Larrick: Thank you so much for having me. I am excited about this conversation. 

[00:00:48] Louis Goodman: It's a pleasure to have you. It's a pleasure to meet you.

Where are you speaking to us from right now? 

[00:00:53] Elizabeth Larrick: Am coming in from Austin, Texas. 

[00:00:56] Louis Goodman: And I take it that's where your office is. 

[00:00:58] Elizabeth Larrick: That's right. That's right. 

[00:01:00] Louis Goodman: Do you live in Austin as well? 

[00:01:02] Elizabeth Larrick: I do. I live a little bit outside of Austin in a smaller town, but Austin is my home base. 

[00:01:08] Louis Goodman: Can you describe your practice to us?

[00:01:12] Elizabeth Larrick: Yes. I am a plaintiff personal injury attorney who also does trial consulting. So a large part of what I do is help other lawyers prepare cases, get ready for the courtroom, but also we get help them get ready for mediations or just doing some general research. I even sometimes have lawyers come to me with an unusual fact pattern and they wanna figure out, Ooh, what would a jury think? I wanna know before I file the case or before I launch and spend a lot of expenses, whether it's even gonna be worthy. So that's a lot of what I do. 

[00:01:50] Louis Goodman: How long have you had this sort of practice? 

[00:01:53] Elizabeth Larrick: I went out on my own about 10 years ago, and then about five years ago is when I really decided to put a lot of thought and effort and turn things into the consulting.

[00:02:06] Louis Goodman: Where are you from originally? 

[00:02:08] Elizabeth Larrick: I am originally from Texas, born and raised in a small town outside of Fort Worth, and went to law school in OU, but made my way back to Texas after a couple years. 

[00:02:19] Louis Goodman: Oh, so that's Oklahoma? 

[00:02:21] Elizabeth Larrick: Yep. University of Oklahoma. 

[00:02:23] Louis Goodman: Then you ultimately went to law school. Did you take some time off between college and law school or did you go straight through?

[00:02:29] Elizabeth Larrick: I went to college at University of North Texas and because, so I finished college early. That gave me a gap before law school and basically I used that to, to work at a criminal law office and really enjoyed getting that experience and then launched myself into law school at University of Oklahoma. 

[00:02:45] Louis Goodman: Do you think that having taken a little bit of time off between college and law school helped you be more focused as a law student? 

[00:02:54] Elizabeth Larrick: To an extent. I will tell you that I was a little jealous of those other students in my class that had taken like several years off because I really felt like they could have a better balance with doing the workload and handling other things in their lives. I feel because I was so excited. Mm-hmm. Even though I'd just taken a year and a half, I was so excited that I, I fell right back into doing all the worrying and studying too much and like, just, I don't think I picked up a regular book during law school or for several years after because I was just, I love reading, so I really was jealous and wish I'd taken a little more time. 

[00:03:36] Louis Goodman: I've often said on this podcast that the people who were the best law students in my law school class were women in their late twenties who had taken a couple of years between college and law school and then went to law school. I would fit you right into that category. So I suspect you did very well in law school. 

[00:03:56] Elizabeth Larrick: Oh, I think it's one of those places where, of course looking back now, you think, oh, because you put so much pressure on yourself, like in law school. Yeah. And not having any real world experience, okay. I'd worked as a clerk at a law office, but that's not really, we really have a lot of ambition and so I really had wish I had taken a little more time. It is what it is. It worked out just like it was supposed to. 

[00:04:17] Louis Goodman: Can you tell us a little bit about your career, like what you did from the time you graduated from law school and kinda walk us through things up until where you are now with this bifurcated practice where you do both plaintiff's personal injury and you advise attorneys in terms of their own practices?

[00:04:37] Elizabeth Larrick: Absolutely. So when I went to law school, I always had this drive to be in the courtroom. That was what I wanted to do, and so I really tried to use every internship possible to get a lot of experience in different places. So I did plaintiff personal injury, I did defense, personal injury, I did subrogation, I did criminal law, I did Public Defender's Office.

Yeah, I really tried to get a good taste of it. And what ended up happening, of course, I came out of law school right at the downturn of the economy and the housing fall, and so. Finding a job was like, then became the like, where can we get a job? Where can it be possible? At the time, I was volunteering as an intern at a DA's office, at prosecutor's office, and that was really what I was trying to find a job doing.

None were available, but I had a lead for a plaintiff personal injury lawyer, and I was like. I can do that. I, I have a little bit of experience. I know a little bit about it, and so I took, interviewed, got that job, and it was such a great place to be starting because there was a big enough docket to learn pre-litigation and also start learning litigation and get in the courtroom.

I had an awesome boss who we went to trial every year and I always got to play a role, so I got to learn and try things and be a part of all those steps, and that really drove my desire to stay with that plaintiff personal injury work and eventually though I got a little homesick, got a little ready to come home.

And also, if you've ever lived in Oklahoma City, it's just tornado alley like it truly is. And I had the last one I wanted to deal with and I said, that's, I'm coming back to Texas. Went out and found another plaintiff personal injury law firm to work with here in Austin and again, starting a little over you, re relearning the legal community.

It's a little different, had to take the bar again, but felt pretty prepared. I knew what not to do and what to do, so that was helpful. And then after about a year and a half, I decided I'd just go and hang out my own shingle. And so I did that and have really enjoyed a lot of the flexibility and freedom because, like you mentioned a little earlier, I really enjoy teaching other lawyers. I enjoy getting on stage and doing public speaking, and that's always been something that I feel is a big part of who I am. So having that freedom, I really dove into getting up and helping and being a part of lots of CLE involving the reptile now called the Edge.

And so that really helped me with a lot of my communication skills and growing my practice and getting me in the courtroom and then really feeling the pull to consult with lawyers to help them do things that they may find challenging or difficult. 

[00:07:25] Louis Goodman: How did you get into the public speaking? 

[00:07:28] Elizabeth Larrick: I attended a seminar and I was so drawn to the topic was depositions and I was really drawn to that type of work and I was learning. That was where I was in my career, I needed to start doing depositions, you know, taking them. And the person who was putting on the seminar was Don Keenan, and he said, you know what? If you have any problems with doing this, give me a call. Shoot me an email. And so I did. And he said, you know what? I would really love from your perspective to get up and speak at one of our seminars about your perspective about using this information, what you've learned, and give us some examples.

And so that was my first invitation, and ended up doing it several times on lots of different topics and then end up actually teaching at his Kenan Trial Institute for several years. 

[00:08:19] Louis Goodman: And obviously you enjoy the public speaking. 

[00:08:22] Elizabeth Larrick: I do. I do. I enjoy the public speaking. I think there is, I even have my own podcast, but I think there is something about being able to take a concept that you know a lot about and then being able to explain it to a group of folks who maybe it will help them, maybe they're not even sure, maybe they're just sitting in the seat for CLE, right? And being in an entertaining way, giving good examples, that is helps me so much grow with the understanding of the concept and being able to apply it better the next time I use it.

[00:08:56] Louis Goodman: You've carved out this interesting niche for yourself in the practice of law. What is it about practicing law that you really, that keeps you as an attorney as opposed to going and using your skills in some other forum, some other type of employment? 

[00:09:15] Elizabeth Larrick: I've again, always been drawn to the courtroom and understanding that there's such a vital role that lawyers play in our everyday lives.

Family law, criminal law, civil law, and I always enjoyed being able to connect with regular people and help them solve a problem. And so I've never really been drawn to do, you know, big business or that because it gets away, disconnects me from the regular person. And so that's always what draws me in.

One of my favorite things is helping a person get ready for their deposition. And there's so much empowerment that goes in there and the mental growth that they go through in that process and being able to stand up for yourself. I help them do that. It's just, it's such an enlightening, wonderful experience in life.

I don't know where else you could replicate it. So that's what keeps me fueling and doing these focus groups and learning from what other people think about the law. And translating that for lawyers is also just, it's just so much fun to me. 

[00:10:21] Louis Goodman: If a young person were coming out of college and thinking about a career, would you recommend going to law school?

[00:10:28] Elizabeth Larrick: That's a hard one. That's a hard question because I think if someone had tried to dissuade me at the point where I was, there's nothing you could have told me I was going right? Like it was what I was doing. I think there's a shortage of lawyers and we need good people who want to go out and serve as a lawyer all the time, but is it a good fit for everybody?

I always ask. There's so many things you can do with a law degree that it's a little mind blowing. I always encourage people to ask themselves like, why are you going? Is this just the next step? You're just following a path, or is this something that you really feel like you know a lot about and that's what you want to do?

We always need more good lawyers, but I would always, I, people ask me like, oh, I have a friend and they're gonna go to law school and can they talk to you? I'm like, absolutely, please, gather as much information as you can before you make that commitment. 

[00:11:23] Louis Goodman: When did you first start, really, like thinking about being a lawyer? And then the other part of the question is, when did you actually start filling out the forms, take the LSAT, send in the money, write the essay, and really apply to law school? 'Cause those are two different things I think. 

[00:11:46] Elizabeth Larrick: Absolutely. I knew very strongly in high school. That is what I wanted to do, not, but I wasn't the person who was doing debate. I wasn't up on a stage, I wasn't in theater. It was just more about personal circumstances that were happening in my life, being involved with family law, being, seeing other people involved in criminal law that were close to me that really made me realize, wait a second. These people, these lawyers are making a lot of big decisions about my life and other people's lives, and they seem to be the key, right, to figuring out this whole system.

So I knew pretty early on in high school that's what I was gonna do, right? Maybe in middle school that I'd have felt pretty strongly about it. And when I got into college is when I said, brought it to my advisor, this is what I wanna do. I wanna go to law school. What do I need to do? He lined everything out for me.

I played, I did moot court. I was. Practicing the LSAT in my senior year, but I was already had my schools picked out, getting things ready. And so it just happened that I, I graduated early so I could have some space, and then I really decided I needed to be a little more serious, take the course, take the LSAT again, and get a better score. And so I did. And then that's, but I already had schools picked out before, before all that, and I even went and visited schools, which I never even did that for college. 

[00:13:09] Louis Goodman: What about the business of practicing law? Can you comment on that a little bit? Talk about how the business of practicing law has gone for you and, I think it's very important for every attorney to have a book of business, and I'm wondering if you could comment on that a little bit as well. 

[00:13:27] Elizabeth Larrick: I don't think that it's a new thought here, but they teach you nothing about that in law school, and I knew just a little. I knew enough to think I could, I knew what was happening with the business side, but when I went out on my own, I really sought out books and sought out education on how to be better at the business side of things, and it is still an evolution for me. I'm still, that part of actually running the business is very exciting to me. I like learning about marketing, I like learning of how all those things work. And it's been a, it's been a, it's been a learning curve. I definitely know that there are things I could have done that would've improved my business, but once I really figured out how I like to run my business how I like to market and I don't have to take all the recommendations that are put out there. Like I think when I started my own firm, I opened up all the social media channels that I needed and I started posting and I had no direction. Yeah. I had really, no, and so eventually I was, why am I doing this?

It's, I really started to fine tune, to figure out what voice is better for me, and that's where the podcast comes in, right? That's where I enjoy getting on stage and letting people know what I do. And I enjoy passing on, educating people and doing webinars. And so understanding the marketing piece, understanding how sales come in, it's always a learning curve, but if you're not interested in it, find somebody who is and make sure they help you because you just, there's so many, we hear all the horror stories about it.

People stealing money or not doing it right and it's, it terrifies you. And so that was always my motivation of I'm always gonna have somebody do that. Yeah, the bookkeeping and that kind of stuff, and making sure that stay on top of that, but keeping the business coming in is always, I feel like the thing that we must always keep in mind and always be doing.

[00:15:27] Louis Goodman: Let's just take a quick break here and tell everybody the name of your podcast. People who listen to this podcast might wanna listen to your podcast, so tell us the name of it. 

[00:15:41] Elizabeth Larrick: Sure. The name of the podcast is Trial Lawyer Prep, and we talk about focus groups and how to use them, how to do them. We talk about witness prep, trial strategy, deposition strategies.

I have a lot of guests on that are also trial lawyers that maybe they've just had a trial, a win or a loss, and we just talk about like how they approached it, how they think about it, resources that they enjoy, whether it be books or other podcasts, and just put that out there. 

[00:16:08] Louis Goodman: Trial Lawyer Prep, and I assume you can find it every place on Apple, Spotify, all the podcast platforms.

[00:16:19] Elizabeth Larrick: Yes. When I decided, and this is also if a lot of lawyers think about doing podcasts. I hired somebody to help set all that up and because again, there are things I think lawyers really enjoy learning about and doing on their own. There are other things. Let's just delegate and move on. 

[00:16:35] Louis Goodman: Yeah. I accept this podcast up all on my own because I was interested in learning how to do it and then i've since delegated out a good deal of the work. But yeah, it's a lot of work. It's hard, it's tricky, but I think it's, I think it's well worth doing. I really enjoy doing podcasts. 

[00:16:52] Elizabeth Larrick: It definitely is. And you definitely have a wonderful voice for a podcast. So that would say, that would be the another great reason that you did.

[00:17:01] Louis Goodman: Thank you. 

[00:17:01] Elizabeth Larrick: You're welcome. 

[00:17:03] Louis Goodman: You said something earlier that brings up a question. Is there anything that you know now that you really wished you had known before you started practicing law? 

[00:17:12] Elizabeth Larrick: Oh my gosh. There's so many things I think that I wish I knew. I really wish I had known a little bit more about financing a business and understanding how to best leverage myself in the finances.

And when I mean that I didn't take out a loan, I used a credit card, and hoped for the best. And I really played small when I should have been playing big and I should have, I really wish I had understood how to go get a loan. I asked around and because with personal injury, you don't have right steady income, you don't have retainers.

It's a hundred percent risk and you may have files, but those are just anticipated funds. Yeah, those are not real. So most banks don't wanna give, any, and that was what I was told, and I didn't do a lot more investigation and research, and that's one thing I kinda wish I had known more about, to really enable myself to be in a better place to practice while also running a business.

[00:18:18] Louis Goodman: Yeah, I think now, I mean, it might've been out there when I started, but I don't think so. But I think now there really are places where lawyers can go to get some information after they've left law school or after they've had five or six years in firm work or government work, and then decide that they wanna go out like you and I ultimately did, and hang a shingle, where we can get some really good information about how to run that business because as you said earlier the law schools do not teach it at all. It's almost as if, oh, by some level of osmosis, you're gonna figure out a way to use this information to make a living, and it doesn't work that way, yeah. 

[00:19:03] Elizabeth Larrick: And it's fascinating to me because most of us, most lawyers end up running their own business. It is, doctors don't really do that.

You know what I mean? Yeah. If you think about from a professional standpoint of folks who go through all the education, pass the bar, or most of the time you're gonna go work for a firm or an existing office or a hospital or, and most lawyers, you can go ride out on your own immediately. 

[00:19:26] Louis Goodman: And even if you're in a small firm or you're a partner in a large firm, you're still involved with bringing in that book of business for yourself, for your firm, for your partners. And if you don't do that, and if you can't do that, ultimately yeah, you may be able to make a living as some kind of glorified research clerk, but you're not really being a lawyer. I think it puts the attorney who's doing that in a treacherous position in case of some sort of a problem with the firm or some kind of a business downturn or some change of the way the world is working at any given moment.

And I think having one's own book of business and the ability to generate business, the ability to network, the ability to, to create work for oneself and one's firm is really a key thing in order to have a life as a lawyer. 

[00:20:29] Elizabeth Larrick: Absolutely any, really any facet of the law you're having, you have clients unless you are truly in there, a paper pusher for a company or a corporation. You, we all have clients and you definitely want to, it's a great skill to have also. Yeah, I mean, it's people skills, right? And we all need them. But it's just kinda one of those things where, you know, we as lawyers, I think are really good at networking with each other. Oh, outside of that, we're not so great.

We love networking with each other for sure. But, and it's one of those things where you, as a new lawyer, you hope, you hope that gets taught to you, but you're really not. It's something that people expect you to do or have a drive to do. And it's not always natural for everybody to do that. So I definitely think it's a skill that we have to learn, yeah, and get comfortable doing. 

[00:21:22] Louis Goodman: How do these virtual focus groups that you run differ from traditional in-person meetings and how do they help a lawyer prepare for trial? 

[00:21:33] Elizabeth Larrick: So with having COVID and having the world shut down and come back as a new formation. Zoom is such an easy platform for people to use.

We go to the doctor, we do school. We see our therapists. Most interactions we can do virtually, people will choose to do it. It's just a little easier. And so what I've done is taken that platform, and are able to reach a lot more people in a very convenient place. And we do two hour, three hour, even one hour, and we'll just bring in eight to 10 people and we will digest a case.

And sometimes we're just looking at, Hey, lawyer comes to me and says, Elizabeth, I think this is what we got, but I'm not sure. Can we take it to a focus group and see Yeah, if that, if we've got it right? Mm-hmm. Meaning, is liability in the back? Do we have it or is it clear what the injuries are and what the medical will need to be?

And so it's just one of those places where we go in and we test. We don't have to have a lot of time, but it's great because it's like a Brady Bunch. We got a squares of all these people's faces right up close. You couldn't ever do that in person. Right? We have one camera, so again, we're getting really good reads on facial expressions and body language.

And we're having conversations. And so instead of it being, okay, here's what side A says, here's what side B says, fill out this form, which you can do that, but it's much more interactive because we're face-to-face with people. We're having conversations and asking people what they think, what they feel.

And the format really allows lawyers to be very cost effective, time effective, and that means you can run more than one. So people may be getting ready for trial three months out, six months out, they're running a focus group. Then we run another one and we can compare those two. And so people practice opening statements, they practice jury selection.

There's a, it's, there's a lot of flexibility with that virtual platform that I encourage lawyers to do because it is a little more cost effective than trying to gather a bunch of people up in a room and paying all those costs and then basically digesting all that information that you get. Because typically in person, if you're gonna put the effort and the time to get everybody there, you're really gonna spend four to six hours, or even eight hours for the break.

[00:23:58] Louis Goodman: Where do you get the people for the focus group? 

[00:24:00] Elizabeth Larrick: We get them all over the place. We use Craigslist, we use Facebook, we use Nextdoor. I like to have a referral program, so where we have people that attend, I send them, Hey, if you have somebody you know would want to attend, send them over. And if, if they do attend, then I'll send you a gift card.

So we have a referral basis with a lot of folks that outreach. I have a website, they have a contact form, a Facebook page where we do a lot of that. So, because I've been doing it for so many years, I have a really good long list of people and also in, in times where people are now, people's work remote, they have different schedules, they're part-time, they're full. There's just a lot of flexibility for people to join focus groups virtually now compared to in person. 

[00:24:46] Louis Goodman: How can lawyers use visual aids? 

[00:24:49] Elizabeth Larrick: I think we can use visual aids to help people learn fast and we all like, YouTube is the still the number one search engine, right? Like we wanna see it. Don't just tell me I wanna see it.

And so I think lawyers can use visual aids. We use normal ones that you would think of, but I think we can use 'em more Witness prep. That'll significantly help with memory and people organizing testimony and being able to connect the dots quicker. A lot of people, we lo love to use them within juries, right?

To help them see things quicker, to connect points, to reinforce and reinforce maybe our way of seeing something or persuasion. But I think we as lawyers can shy away. We think it has to be something that's very formal or that's created by an expert. When you know you writing on a piece of paper, put a big circle on it, that's actually as simple as a visual aid could be, and I think we can shy away from that. That's what our brains love and that really helps whoever we're teaching. 

[00:25:53] Louis Goodman: This is a two part question. What do you think is the best advice you've ever received and or what advice would you give to a young attorney just starting out in practice? 

[00:26:07] Elizabeth Larrick: I'm gonna take the second one. So the advice I would give to a young attorney who is just starting out is to really take it upon yourself to get out there and start networking. Pick a group, right? Maybe it's the local bar association or maybe it's the, we have all kinds of trial lawyers, associations. Like I would just encourage you to go ahead and start going to those meetings, meeting people outside your office who are maybe in different areas of law, maybe in their same area of law, but I think that we, as young lawyers, we get really wrapped up in learning the practice like, and we spend a lot of time just in that office pushing that paper, learning how to do it when we still need, we need to be networking early on. So it's just great to have a good network right off the bat and start doing that, meeting people, letting people know what you do. And again, you start to learn that scale of communication along the way. 

[00:27:12] Louis Goodman: Can you recommend a book that lawyers might be able to use, it could be helpful to them in their practices in a specific area? 

[00:27:21] Elizabeth Larrick: Yes, so we talked about visual aids, and so I would encourage lawyers to pick up the book Beyond Bullet Points by Cliff Atkinson, fantastic book that walks you step by step. You can even get templates from him once you buy the book, that really helped you set up your PowerPoint in a way that is visually persuasive and that is working with brain science, with neuroscience with our brains. Another book that I really enjoy if you are getting ready for trial or is Sari de la Motte's Hostage to Hero.

[00:27:58] Louis Goodman: So we have Beyond Bullet Points and Hostage to Hero. 

[00:28:03] Elizabeth Larrick: Yes. 

[00:28:04] Louis Goodman: I wanna shift gears here a little bit, Elizabeth. Tell me a little bit about how your family life has been, your personal life has been, and how that's fit into your practice of law, how your practice of law has fit into that, and what sorts of things you like to do recreationally. 

[00:28:23] Elizabeth Larrick: I probably fall into the category of, as a young lawyer and for many years was very much a workaholic, and had to do a lot of soul searching when I started my own practice to figure out really what I wanted in life and in balance, and that really led me on a journey of doing a lot of personal development and reading a just a lot of books about that and. I still am working on getting the balance correct, but slowly but surely learn our lessons and really try to create a life that we enjoy and that the people around us, our family members can tolerate.

And I'm very grateful that my husband knows how passionate I'm about what I do, and how I can get so enthralled in going through a focus group and writing up a memo and doing a podcast, that hours can go by without what are you doing in there? So I understand that there's a balance in there, but that overall, overcoming that and understanding some of the things that I learned about work and what work represents and how I need to have some balance.

It is really been a big part of my growth as a person and am very grateful for the partner that I have to support and really be encouraging and not too point blank, you, Hey, you're in there, you're working too much. I would say overall, the other things that I enjoy are just getting outside. I find out so much joy and even if I'm just cutting the yard, even, I'm just mowing the grass or we are fortunate to live on two acres and, and it's all manicured, so we, most of our weekends, we are planning to be outside and mow the grass and take care of things and got two fun, two fun dogs that we do all go for a walk, all that kinda stuff. So I really try to make as much time as I can to be outside and exercise and really try to take care of my health because there's so many lawyers who struggle with addiction and just working, it, their health just totally degrades so that I'm very cognizant of trying to make a balance, but also be healthy and spend some time outdoors. 

[00:30:44] Louis Goodman: Let's say you came into some real money, three or $4 billion. What, if anything, would you do differently in your life? 

[00:30:53] Elizabeth Larrick: I like, first of all, how you called real money in the billions. Okay. I love that. Second, 

[00:30:59] Louis Goodman: well, a couple of million. I could blow that at lunch, but billions, you know, it's, it's enough to be able to live the way you want. 

[00:31:10] Elizabeth Larrick: I, I would hope so. I'm just gonna put that out here. But one of the things I think that I would love to do is give more to charity and, really probably set up a foundation that could help some folks.

Access to justice I think is a big, a big place that we need to help people. And I think there are many things that folks just don't have access to that are very simple like food. And I really enjoy volunteering at our local food bank here and try to volunteer in person and donate every month. And I just think if, if I have less money, I will still do that. If I have more money, I will still do that. And I think having that amount of money can really change a lot of people's lives, and that would be something I would want to be able to do. And having that power to do that with that money would be, I feel like life changing.

[00:32:10] Louis Goodman: Let's say someone gave you 60 seconds on a Super Bowl ad and you could say anything you wanted, some message to a large audience, what would you wanna say? 

[00:32:21] Elizabeth Larrick: The best message we could send people is put the phone down. I know that sounds like super nerdy, but wow, if we could really just get away from some screens and then live life a little, we'd all have a lot of big improvements with our relationships and with what's our health and other things in our lives.

[00:32:38] Louis Goodman: Elizabeth, if someone wants to get in touch with you, someone has a personal injury situation in the Austin area, or an attorney pretty much anywhere wants to talk with you about some skills for trial development, depositions, ways to improve the practice in the courtroom. What's the best way to get in touch with you, Elizabeth Larrick? 

[00:33:04] Elizabeth Larrick: The best way to get in touch is just to go to my website. It's Larrick law firm.com. That's L-A-R-R-I-C-K Law firm.com. There's a lot of information there, but also I've got a contact form and even I've got a direct scheduler on there that you can actually look and pick a time for a phone call. 

[00:33:23] Louis Goodman: If we were to just Google Elizabeth Larrick Austin, that your name and contact information would come up.

[00:33:32] Elizabeth Larrick: Yeah, you don't even have to do Austin there. I think I've narrowed down how many Larricks there are. There are three of us. There's Steve's in West Virginia, there's someone in Seattle, and there's me here in Austin. So if you hit Larrick like you, you're gonna, you're gonna be able to find it. 

[00:33:45] Louis Goodman: Elizabeth, is there anything that you'd like to discuss that we have not discussed? Any topic at all that you'd like to touch on or bring up that, that we haven't mentioned? 

[00:33:55] Elizabeth Larrick: I don't think so. You hit me with some really hard, thoughtful questions and I hope that I did a good job and brought some value to this wonderful podcast. 

[00:34:04] Louis Goodman: Elizabeth Larrick, thank you so much for joining me today on The Love Thy Lawyer podcast. It's been a pleasure to talk to you. 

[00:34:11] Elizabeth Larrick: Thank you so much for having me, and I'm glad to be a guest of Love Thy Lawyer. 

[00:34:15] Louis Goodman: That's it for today's episode of Love Thy Lawyer. If you enjoyed listening, please share it with a friend and follow the podcast. If you have comments or suggestions, send me an email. Take a look at our website at lovethylawyer.com, where you can find all of our episodes, transcripts, photographs and information.

Thanks to my guests, and to Joel Katz for music, Bryan Matheson for technical support, Paul Robert for social media and Tracy Harvey. I'm Louis Goodman.

[00:34:54] Elizabeth Larrick: It totally just escaped me, but I will get it to you. You're gonna have to edit that part out.